What does it mean to rewild, decolonize, and reclaim our experience of pleasure and intimacy? How do we embody erotic sovereignty? Victor Warring, an Erotic ReWilder and Somatic Sexuality Educator, helps us to understand the distinction between the erotic and the sexual, and to expand our capacity to experience pleasure—even amidst chaos, collapse, and collective overwhelm.
Today’s guest, Victor Warring, has a quite provocative title - he is an Erotic ReWilder. Which includes his roles as a Somatic Sexuality Educator, mentor, coach and community facilitator. Victor is dedicated to supporting people in reclaiming their erotic sovereignty and removing any self-imposed, internalized or socially imposed obstacles that interfere with the expression of their bodily erotic brilliance.
In this episode, we dive into the distinction between erotic and sexual—and why that difference matters.
We also explore what it means to rewild after generations of colonization, and how we begin to deconstruct the narratives that have shaped our bodies, our pleasure, and our sense of self.
What does it mean to rewild, decolonize, and reclaim our experience of pleasure and intimacy?
How do we embody erotic sovereignty—not just in moments of intimacy, but in our relationships with ourselves, each other, and the world?
Victor shares how sexological bodywork can support this reclamation, the role of conscious pleasure practices, and how we can expand our capacity to experience pleasure—even amidst chaos, collapse, and collective overwhelm.
What is Covered:
(00:00) Remembering Tory Capron
(02:05) Understanding the concept of erotic vs sex
(04:02) The meaning of rewilding
(09:08) Rewilding and the connection to ancestral selves
(13:07) The Impact of colonization on body and sexuality
(20:13) Grief, vulnerability, shame and their connection to eros
(27:22) How to deal with performance anxiety in sexuality
(34:25) Why we need to slow down to reconnect with the erotic
(40:05) Navigating pleasure and pleasure practices amidst chaos
(46:07) What is erotic sovereignty?
(51:38) The role of sexological bodywork in reclaiming erotic sovereignty
(56:15) How we can reclaim our erotic nature and erotic power
(01:00:06) Why each decolonization experience is different and unique
Resources:
- Sign up for the Power Reclamation Newsletter https://revealingwisdom.activehosted.com/f/9
- Check out Victor’s upcoming workshops and events: https://www.rewilderos.com/
- A powerful film on death from our dear friend Tory Capron - The Mountains Remain, a film by Henna Taylor https://hennataylor.com/work/until-only-the-mountain-remains/
- Follow Victor on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bonobo_man/
- Find Victor on Facebook: https://www.instagram.com/bonobo_man/
- Also, we referred to this podcast, which is fun if you've not listened: Savage Lovecast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/savage-lovecast/id201376301
Connect with Anne-Marie Marron:
- If you have a power reclamation story to share or questions, please send them to Ask Anne-Marie https://anne-mariemarron.com/ask
- Find Anne-Marie on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/anne.marie.marron/
- If you wonder whether Power Reclamation Coaching is for you, book a discovery call https://calendly.com/anne-marie-marron/30-minute-consultation
- For more on customized immersions with Anne-Marie, please visit: https://anne-mariemarron.com/integral-leadership-immersion
Anne-Marie Marron (00:10)
Hello and welcome. You're listening to the Power Reclamation Show, where we explore the mysteries, heartbreaks, and resiliency of the human experience. Together, we'll focus on rewilding ourselves through raising consciousness and dismantling domestication. This is a collective journey of challenging hierarchical systems of power over, as well as our own personal conditioning and limiting belief systems.
This show is about embodying the power of love, presence, and our own inner authority. Well, here we are. I am so grateful, Victor, that you have decided to join me for this conversation today. Thank you. I know I mentioned this to you when we had our first call together that, and I just want to bring her in of Tori Kaepern and how I met you at Thanksgiving dinner at her house. I'm not sure how many years ago.
Victor Warring (00:53)
Thanks for having me. Glad to be here.
a
year ago.
Anne-Marie Marron (01:07)
Many a year ago. Yeah. But I just want to present her the year of her death just passed. And for anyone who's listening, I think a lot of people do know Tori and she was a really gifted therapist and shamanic practitioner and just a beloved being in the world who actually upon her death created a film called, I think, Only the Mountains Remain. And so I'm going to have that film in the show notes if anyone wants to take a look at that. But I just felt like given that that's where we met.
I wanted to bring Tori in and just love you Tori wherever you are, flyin' free woman. Yeah, welcome Tor. So I thought it would be really fun to open up because you have quite a provocative title of you're an erotic rewilder. And I thought it would be really fun to just have you riff on that. Like what exactly does that mean?
Victor Warring (01:42)
Welcome. Welcome Tori.
Anne-Marie Marron (02:05)
Yeah, anything with erotic is not boring.
Victor Warring (02:09)
Right. Well, it's funny because people hear the word erotic and it evokes something almost automatically. And what it evokes almost automatically is sex and sexuality. Right. And that's not, it's not necessarily inaccurate, but it's not the full thing. It's not the full picture. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So maybe I can break it down a little bit. So I love words. And so, I'll just start with the first word, which is erotic.
Anne-Marie Marron (02:31)
Please.
Victor Warring (02:38)
which to me means life energy. It means a quality of presence that has to do with life and engagement and curiosity and playfulness and feeling and all of that. And so that's big. That's big. I like to contrast it with the word
sex. people go, erotic sex. I'm like, erotic is a quality that can be brought to sex and sexuality. And it's also completely, the way I like to illustrate it is it's completely possible to have sex or sexual experiences that are not erotic. I think people do it all the time, actually. Yeah. And as soon as I say that, people go,
Anne-Marie Marron (03:24)
completely.
I agree.
Victor Warring (03:32)
yeah. I get that. I've had a lot of experiences that were not erotic, but were very sexual. that's it. But the erotic can be brought into a lot of different places as well. that's, I guess that's the first word and I could talk a lot more about erotic and the definition, but that's good for now. So then the second word is rewilding. And rewilding, mean, it's definitely a word that's like out there a lot right now. A lot of people,
Anne-Marie Marron (03:52)
Great. Yes.
Victor Warring (04:02)
it onto the beginning of things. And for me, rewilding what it means to me is it's an acknowledgement that myself, you, pretty much everyone we know are humans that are living in domestication. We are humans that have self domesticated ourselves. We're living in domesticated cultures. And there are a lot of ways in which we are no longer
in contact with our ancestral selves. so rewilding is acknowledging that, that there's something that we are not connected to anymore. And that thing that we are not connected to anymore is powerful. It's our evolutionary heritage. It is intelligent and our disconnection from it actually has caused us, this is my
bias, a lot of pain and suffering. so rewilding is acknowledging that and then going, how do we want to reconnect with that? Again, how do we want to invite those things back into our life and in my particular case, into our bodies, eroticism, sexuality, relationship, community? How do we want to invite those things back in? And then how do we do that?
Anne-Marie Marron (05:27)
Yeah.
Do we want to and then how? And when you talk about ancestral selves, are you, can you say a little bit more of like how you.
Victor Warring (05:36)
Okay, yeah. So a little back history about me. One of my places of study, one of the places where I spent my time, my BA is in cultural anthropology. So I've always had a really nerdy, curious interest in who we are as humans. what does human mean? And from being a kid even, of being like, like this way that we're doing it, it's a way, but it's not.
It's not the way. so when I talk about ancestral humans or I'm thinking about humans that are, I don't want to get too, my words are going.
So I'll slow down a little bit. So I'll put it this way. We have been modern humans as a species for about 250,000 years, maybe 300,000 years. That's how long what we consider modern humans to be here. What we've been doing has been happening for at the longest 15,000 years. And so when I say what we've been doing, I'm talking about like
coming in from the savannas, starting to do agriculture, starting to do less communal living, starting to own land, own things, own people, and starting to create structures that we're more familiar with, like cities and empires and that sort of thing. So we've only been doing this for a really small chunk of time.
Anne-Marie Marron (07:15)
Mm-hmm. We're using
those numbers.
Victor Warring (07:17)
compared to the fullness. we evolved in a much different container. And so what I mean by ancestral humans or more wild humans are, one is like the parts of ourselves that are still connected with that, because we are. And I'm also talking about people, current people in the world, who are more connected with that. there are...
people in the world who are foragers and hunter gatherers, they are still living like wild humans. There are people that are more indigenous and their way of life tends to be more wild and they tend to have very different ways than we do. And they tend to have higher levels of intimacy and connection and satisfaction in their lives. And even this one kind of rocks people's health than we do.
We tend to think, we've got it made as modern humans. We've got all this medicine available to us and whatnot. And in a way, that's true, but also not.
Anne-Marie Marron (08:21)
I know, we're poisoning our soils and all of that is going in our bodies.
Victor Warring (08:26)
Yeah, and there are little literal physiological things that have that are happening to our bodies as modern humans that we're suffering from. And even now, there are scientists, doctors in the world that are like trying to go back and go, hey, we need to collect these poop samples from hunter-gatherers because they've got like microbiomes that would be useful for us. And yeah, yeah. And, you know, there's problems with that, too.
Anne-Marie Marron (08:54)
Yeah.
Victor Warring (08:56)
But so that's what I mean. Yeah, there's a way of being human that is still in us, but again, is covered by domestication.
Anne-Marie Marron (09:08)
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree.
Victor Warring (09:10)
Yeah. And I'll tack this on there too. When we have domestic animals, we've got dogs. All dogs are wolves. That's their ancestral wildness. And we know what a wolf looks like. We admire them. go, my god, wolf, the wolf, the wolf. And then we have modern domesticated dogs, which range from everything from bull terriers to pugs who can't breathe.
And all of it, there's something that happens with domestication that ain't good. We're not always good. I don't want to just us. And there's something that happens too when things get domesticated and try to go back to the wild. That's difficult. Like if you take a cow and go, okay, you're wild again, be free. And cow's going to be like, I don't know how to do this anymore. So there's a quality of that for us too. And that's the...
the gentleness that I try to bring to the work that I do of like, this isn't about just like chucking everything. This is about gently, it's a gentle query. Like what does this rewilding mean to you in your body and what can your modern nervous system and relationship and sexuality tolerate?
Anne-Marie Marron (10:29)
That's an interesting language right there. What can your system tolerate?
Victor Warring (10:33)
Yeah, there's a, I'm trying to remember what author this was, maybe it doesn't matter, but he was talking about life in hunter gatherer societies. And the way he put it was there's a level of intimacy in those groups of humans. There's a way of living that we as modern people would find it difficult, if not impossible to tolerate.
Anne-Marie Marron (10:57)
Interesting, because what would be so confronting about that lifestyle? I know we're going to get too erotic in a moment. This all feels so good. But what would be so confronting to us now to be part of that kind of lifestyle?
Victor Warring (11:10)
Well, the key word there is intimacy with your group of people, with land, to your environment.
Anne-Marie Marron (11:13)
Yeah, right.
You actually have to feel everything that's going on around you and in relationship with the land. And yeah, it's interesting, Gary, you say that because I think of just the rising statistics around how much isolation, loneliness there is in the world at this time. yet we've created this world where technically we have access to everything except for this one thing. And then we know what social media is doing to a lot of that as well. But I digress. OK, great.
So thank you for laying the foundation out. Now I have one more layer that I want to do with you before we just like go wherever. Okay. So we talked about erotic and we talked about rewilding and we've talked about the ancestral imprint that like, you know, what, what our roots really are and how that in itself was wild. Cause I think some people can perceive wild is out of control, but what we're talking about is like the roots of being intimate and connected with all of life. And then there's this whole thing around Eros. so how do you define Eros?
in distinction to erotic, or do you?
Victor Warring (12:20)
Yeah, I mean, to me, those are similar things. I Eros, what would that be? guess Eros is the noun of it. Erotic is the adjective of it. But yeah, Eros just is that life energy and that quality that we bring of aliveness to whatever we do.
Anne-Marie Marron (12:38)
Yeah.
Exactly. Yeah. Okay. All right. Wonderful. So, my God, I'm so excited. There's so many things I want to talk to you about. I want to start with that you've had so many provocative Facebook posts, but there was one, I think it was probably what prompted me to reach out and say, Hey, would you like to do this? And the gist of it is basically, I would like to riff on you around what cuts us off from our somatic intelligence and our erotic life. And one of the things you've talked about is colonization.
And so from your background, I'd love to have you speak on what do you feel like the implications are, what has caused us to be so disconnected?
Victor Warring (13:14)
Do you want me to speak about colonization?
Anne-Marie Marron (13:17)
Sure. Yeah, let's start there. And how it relates to disconnecting us from our erotic nature.
Victor Warring (13:22)
Yeah. So there are some words that I tend to use interchangeably and they're not necessarily interchangeable, but anyway, I'm just going to grant myself some leeway. So colonization or colonized. So the other thing I would say when I, cause I just spent some time saying we're domesticated. I would also say that we are living a colonized existence. So colonization is literally when one group of people
Anne-Marie Marron (13:31)
just do.
Victor Warring (13:51)
typically a more technological people or agricultural people or centralized kind of government kind of people, they go into a land and they take it. They take the land, they either get rid of the people that are there, they say, you know, this is our manifest destiny or it's a land for people, for people without land, whatever. They go in, they kick the people out or they kill them or they put them
to use in some way. Yeah, and then they own the place. There's a quality of being in the body and below that there's a quality of sexuality and relationshiping that is part and parcel with that kind of system of society. So for a colonized society to operate, it's got to be very based on ownership and it's got to be very based on
Anne-Marie Marron (14:23)
Enslavement or something.
Victor Warring (14:51)
people working for in service to the structure or the state or whatever you want to call it. So when that happens, when you need to understand ownership, you need to understand things like who owns what, how do we track that, all that kind of thing. And so you start to have things more like patriarchy. You start to have more things like not only monogamy, but enforced monogamy and strict rules about like who fucks who and.
and how and why and what happens to you if you fuck the wrong person, that sort of thing. Because you gotta know. You gotta know where things are coming from. So that sets up whole structures where, you know, maybe in less colonized or pre-colonized societies, there's less shame around sex, there's more freedom typically around sex or sexuality. It's not that there's no...
Anne-Marie Marron (15:30)
Yeah.
Victor Warring (15:47)
rules or I mean, every culture has its rules, but there's it's less like, but as, as colonization happens, there's just more structures and strictures and tightnesses and strict rules around sex and how you do it. And so there tends to be even, you know, stricter ideas about like things like, you know, what, you know, this is stuff right now, what is gender and strict rules around like same, same sex.
relationships and all that sort of thing. So basically there's more control. so, so that impacts our body. It impacts how we move through the world. It impacts how we see the world. It impacts how we see each other. You know, if I'm learning as a person living under these rules and strictures,
Anne-Marie Marron (16:24)
lately.
Victor Warring (16:38)
that sexuality is for this. It's for ownership. It's for creating these small units that we can understand, family in the way that we understand it. Then I'm just gonna look at you. You know, we're not in that kind of relationship with each other, but I'm gonna look at you, chances are, in a way that's more about ownership. It's more about controlling you.
It's more about tracking what you're doing, how you're doing, who you're doing it with. And it's about creating the small bubble in which we're going to like do our thing. So that's a little bit, I mean, there's much more, but I'm sort of losing, not losing, those are the words.
Anne-Marie Marron (17:19)
Yeah, this is great. I want to riff on this a little bit more because I feel like what you're really pointing to is as things become colonized, there's the structures and rules and what's happened to us is that we've started to fit in those boxes because we didn't have a choice. It was just the way that the structure started to get built around human populations, at least in the day.
Victor Warring (17:39)
And I was gonna say, I think the weird part about it is like, we think this is normal. Exactly. Like when you're living in your paradigm, don't really see it as a thing, you just see it as the way things are. And so when people are given something else or shown something else, like how we're doing it isn't necessarily the way it needs to be. It feels very threatening, but it's also like, oh no, we've been patriarchal monogamous.
sex controlling weirdos since we were in the caves. And they show the pictures of the quintessential caveman hitting his mate over the head with a stick and going, no, you're mine. like, that's us. It's not them.
Anne-Marie Marron (18:24)
Yeah, that's
us. Yeah. That's so humbling to just to feel like it lives in all of us. And yet, and when I think and I'm sure this is true for you, whenever I'm doing work with clients around erotic, one might think it's going to be all sexy and fun, but actually the depth of the work is really around attachment, but it's around shame. And it's around the sense of, especially if someone's trying to open a relationship, like that's a whole other level of
especially it seems like, and I'm curious from your perspective, but it's, know both gender, all genders experience jealousy and trying to come out of that process of, but your mind, you can't be with someone else. Like that's threatening to me. It just feels like I've noticed that's a really big struggle with some of the male clients that I have of just feeling so guilty about not being able to, and I think it's true for women too. And I haven't worked with any non-binary people yet in that process, but how tricky it is to
acknowledge the way this is wired in us and it doesn't mean we're broken. The jealousy and all of that, it just means we've been indoctrinated into a script where it doesn't feel safe to share. It doesn't feel safe to open our body to one person necessarily and then to another based on these constraints that our psyche has been given. And so, yeah, I guess I just wanted to speak to, maybe we could take this to that, just the larger question of what causes us to be
to lose our wildness around our erotic energy? And then what are we doing to repair it? How do we come back into reclaiming it? anything you want to say, those are really general big questions. I think we've said so far, one thing that loses is shame, all the messaging, the colonization. And what else do you feel like?
Victor Warring (20:13)
Yeah. Well, another word I want to bring in to that grouping of words that you said is the word grief. You know, when I do this work for myself, when I work with other people around this and people don't necessarily expect it. when you start to rewild Eros, when you start to challenge maybe the way that you want to do this, there's grief there. And to me, it's the...
It's the ancestral and generational grief and also the current grief of when it's like, the way that I've learned about this, not only have I been doing it for a long time and it's actually giving me pain, but it doesn't have to be like this. And so one of the things I will say with people that I work with a lot is that grief and eros are actually very tightly woven together.
They're like cousins and they hold hands. And so sometimes I talk about it like one thing, grief arrows or erotic grief, almost like space time. They walk together a lot. So I wanted to throw that into. It's a big thing. met for myself when I started to have that realization of like, wow, all these things that I have felt shame around or felt tight around or this way that I've done my life for.
Anne-Marie Marron (21:21)
Right.
Victor Warring (21:41)
decades, there are other ways that are less painful or that are more pleasurable. And they're not wrong. It's just what's true for me and what's true for the people that I'm with.
Anne-Marie Marron (21:54)
Yeah, I think I'm so glad you brought this piece in because, and this is part of the conditioning, grief doesn't go with erotic. know, it's like erotic supposed to be just pleasurable and good. And yet I can attest to the fact that and every partner I'm with, I just kind of have to educate some where it's like I'll have multiple orgasms and then I'll just start weeping, like weeping, weeping, weeping. And the beginning, was like, what is that? You know, inside I'm thinking, why am I?
crying. And I don't know. I don't know. I still don't know. I just know that it's energy moving through and that there is something about that kind of aliveness that elicits grief. And so I'm wondering if you can speak to, do you have a sense of what that like, is the grief moving things through from the ancestral line? it like, do I mean, it's such a general question, but what is your experience of what the grief is informing us of through the body in that way?
Victor Warring (22:49)
I think, I don't know if it's that exactly. think grief just needs to move. we're talking about colonization. That's another piece of more colonized types of society is that grief, along with a lot of other feelings, is like pushed down. We don't want to grieve. And we try to like, are you done with your grief yet when something happens? It's seen as an impediment. But grief needs to move.
And in people, especially that haven't done a lot of moving of grief, which is most of us, comes up in very powerful experiences. You said I can share whatever here? Please. Yeah. So I'm just like, ooh, I to this. So I had an experience in the recent past where two lovers of mine and myself
were decided to be together all at one time. And I was sort of the lynch, I was the hinge in that particular. And they decided to pay a lot of loving attention both physically and verbally to me in that encounter, which I think most people go, my God, that's amazing. And it was amazing, but it was hard to take. It hard to take. And so I had to,
Anne-Marie Marron (24:05)
That's what I was thinking.
Victor Warring (24:11)
regulated. And there are times when I was like contracting in and pulling away and they're very smart and astute and and they're like, stay, stay with stay with us. Can you can you take it? Can you take it in? And it was very playful, but I would call that grief. Absolutely. That, uh, you know, I'm like, this is it's this is too much. It's hard. Yeah.
And the practice is like staying with it, letting it move. And in that particular situation, it's like the kind of grief that moves into play and pleasure and whatnot. Not all grief does that, but it's way that, just illustrating the way in which we tend to think of grief as a thing, to not feel it, to feel it in a very small way. And I don't even know what the laws are now. Like if someone dies,
in your family or your spouse, know, like, you know, how much time do you get off for your grief? Whatever. Yeah.
Anne-Marie Marron (25:06)
Probably not much.
Yeah, not in our culture. That's such a powerful example because it also feels like really needing to teach ourselves how to surrender, relax, and receive again. After all this colonization where we've had to be so tight and I'm thinking just collectively as a species, especially those who are being dominated, of just the level of survival in our systems.
and people who have slaves, like that whole period of time. mean, there's slavery every single century has its own version. But I feel like, yes. my God, totally. And I think of, in Hakomi, they call this like a nourishment barrier when it's like the body is starting to receive something it's been longing for. And then it hits this threshold where it's like, my God, I don't know if I can take more.
Victor Warring (25:40)
American chattel slavery.
Anne-Marie Marron (25:58)
And in none of this, of course, happens conceptually, because I think that's part of what happens for me when I have those experiences where there's so much pleasure and there's so much connection and my body is releasing and going through all these waves of orgasms. then there's this incredible grief. And I guess I just love that we're normalizing for anyone out there that if this is happening, like, let it fucking happen. Like, let it happen. And in your example, the generosity and the attunement
to track one another for how much are we receiving each other. Like that takes it out of just, you and we could have a whole talk on this, like sex versus erotic that we started with, but that's such the beauty of erotic is that level of presence of like, Hey, you know, like, don't go away, stay here. Like, you know, just calling each.
Victor Warring (26:47)
Are you with us? Yeah, exactly. Are you staying? Do you want to stay? you want to stay?
Anne-Marie Marron (26:51)
even just consensual question. Yeah. Oh, the playfulness of that. That was so good.
Victor Warring (26:54)
We don't
I do, I do!
Anne-Marie Marron (27:05)
Yeah. Yeah. So here we are just like, starting to map out, you know, to be erotic is to be so playful and lighthearted and also to be in these deep states of emotion, whether it's grief or hitting a threshold of how much we're able to take in.
Victor Warring (27:22)
Yeah, it's the willingness to experience the spectrum of all that we feel.
Anne-Marie Marron (27:28)
Yeah, exactly. So you're making me think of another kind of key thing that comes up in this realm, which is there's so much around sexuality that is performative based. That is part of, I would say, the colonization. people, feel like myself included, it's been so much unraveling around these ways in which, and I've seen it with a lot of lovers, especially male lovers, less with female, but it just feels like the level of
trying so hard to do the right thing. And like we all do it. And yet it's such a powerful moment, I think, when we catch ourselves to realize like, we're not cultivating the erotic in this moment. What do we want to do? How do we drop into feeling? How do we drop into sensing? How do we come back into our bodies and out of our heads? Because I think so much of sex is just driven from our heads. Erotic is from our entire being. So what are your thoughts on that? Where would you take that?
Victor Warring (28:26)
Yeah, I'll take it here. That performance, as far as sex and sexuality goes, well, first I'll say it this way. I love performance. I love performing. I'm a performer. But there's a difference between that and anxiety and control, which is what a lot of sexual performance is around. So I love to say to people and myself, like, yeah, if you're going to perform in sex, like, fucking do it. But just, you know.
Anne-Marie Marron (28:41)
Good point.
Victor Warring (28:53)
Have it be intentional, like have an intentional performance, whatever that means to you. But what most people mean is anxiety and having to show up in a way that's like expected in some way, whether it's how you look or how hard you're supposed to be or how wet you're supposed to be or how you look from a particular angle, just all that stuff.
Anne-Marie Marron (29:22)
pressure.
Victor Warring (29:24)
And all of it tends to pull you away from the experience. Because when I'm worried about how hard my cock is in a particular moment or not, I am no longer there. I'm no longer with. And people notice. I notice when my partner's not there anymore or they notice when I'm not there anymore.
Anne-Marie Marron (29:43)
Yeah.
Victor Warring (29:50)
And then if there's shame wrapped around that, which often there is, then what was erotic or playful starts to like contract in and all of a sudden, like again, I'm no longer there. And on top of that, like usually in shame, there's like defense or something like, and that's hard. That kind of sucks. And again, it's not like you can just like magically let go of those things, but there's a practice of...
kind of playing with that of like, I just love the normalcy of being an absurd, floppy, goofy human. Like sex is absurd. It's absurd, you know? Like we take these bodies and we put them together and we go, ah, ah, you know? And we make all these weird.
Anne-Marie Marron (30:42)
sing and make noises.
Victor Warring (30:43)
Yeah, making noises, hopefully, and making weird sounds, and our faces get funny. when you can start to bring that level of just absurdity and humor into it, that it happens at all, or that it happens in a mutually satisfying way, it's just like, yay. That's kind of amazing. Yeah. So...
Anne-Marie Marron (31:07)
It's kind of amazing.
Victor Warring (31:10)
Anyway, I guess that's one of my antidotes to performance and anxiety and that contraction of like going away of like a real acceptance of being these goofy, stupid humans, trying to have pleasure and that there can be humor in that. I love it. And all kinds of funny sounds and smells and unexpected things.
Anne-Marie Marron (31:32)
Exactly.
Yeah, I really love that that is such a good antidote to spring the humor and the lightness in. And I also think, you know, as I'm listening to you, to be able to enter a relationship, just acknowledging that there's going to be performance tendencies and what's our desire around that. Do we want to slow down? Do we want to catch it? Do we want to name it if we feel it in one another? Because I think often it doesn't feel like there's another option. It's just like, this is how this is. And
It's not, it doesn't have to be. And I think that's the beauty of unwinding with a partner and having that messy, like, my God, I was just going for this and I just caught myself and I was just speeding it up because, it's like, no, but then I wasn't feeling you anymore. Or I'm trying so hard to give you what you want, but I'm not feeling you. To be able to name those things in the moment just feels like that is breaking down back into the wild. The wild is our vulnerability. The wild is our willingness to say like,
I don't feel like I'm here right now or I'm chasing an orgasm right now or I'm trying to get you to have an orgasm so I feel good about myself. All those things, to be able to name them feels, that's think how partially how we're liberating also.
Victor Warring (32:42)
Yeah, yeah. And our response often to anxiety and not knowing or when things are like not going like we thought they would is to speed up. to, you know, and I live in a male body, so there's, I think there's gender differences with this along with everything else. But yeah, the tendency is just to speed up and to, to, and to hurry and to, to get very rote. Yeah.
you know, if I'm anxious that, you know, I'm interacting with my partner and that partner, my partner, you know, is not coming or isn't experiencing pleasure. Like I think they should, or they're getting bored with me or whatever. It's like, no, like, so this wasn't working. Like this will, you know, speed up. And we stopped listening or, you know, you know, if my, again, if my cock is like,
not as hard as I think it should be. You know, the answer the antidote to that is like speed up and to be hurt and hurry up and like hurry up and get this condom on and you know, it's like, want to hurry up and get in there. know, yeah, the
Anne-Marie Marron (33:50)
Listeners, got to watch the video if you're listening on podcast because this is so animated. Switch over right now.
Victor Warring (33:57)
Yeah, I mean, I have felt those things, you know? And the mode of the erotic and the mode of Eros typically is slowing down. The erotic lives in very slow, breathy, spacious places. It doesn't always stay there, but that's where it has a window of showing up. And that's what I try to support people into. It's like...
We are, we are used to speeding up. We're speedy modern animals and we want to, and in our speed, we want to, we want to fix things, know, and fixing usually looks like, what do we need to add to this equation for us to be better, feel better, fuck better, relate better? And often it's like, well, you need to slow the fuck down.
Anne-Marie Marron (34:46)
Exactly. Slow the fuck.
Victor Warring (34:48)
down. And go, okay, what is let your body feel a thing. Yeah. And then feel it in connection with someone else what happened.
Anne-Marie Marron (34:56)
You know, it's interesting as it just feels like it's no different than on the dance floor or even when I'm teaching executives how to create emergent teams where you're listening to the emergent wisdom rather than driving in with your agenda. It's the same approach. You have to slow down to stay with yourself and to feel the sensations and to get the insights and supposed to just, if we move too fast and we haven't done that foundational connection first.
created the circuit, the energetic circuit or whatever that is, whether it's a business team or in bed with our lover, this slowing down really matters. Because that to me is how I access my emotion. I don't know. I might have ideas of what I want to do with my lover when we start to engage. I really don't know and I discover it and so does my partner if we allow it to actually reveal itself to us in our bodies and to be willing to change course. I've had multiple times where we've been like deep in it.
And then this partner, we're not together anymore, but he would just stop and be like, I just need you to hold me. And he's like inside of me and we're like deep in it. And I'm like, great. And we would just shift. And I learned so much from that level of freedom of deeply listening to our bodies and then what would come next. And it was always the most profound intimacy and lovemaking. It was just so different than the kind of sex that I've known so much throughout my life.
Victor Warring (36:18)
Yeah. What happens when we stop trying to get someplace and be? And what happens when we are attuning with each other? if we're not, I mean, attuning is what I think most people are interested in. But when we're not attuning, we're doing. Or when we're not attuning, we're tending to come in with an agenda. And that's when we're like, oh,
Anne-Marie Marron (36:47)
or...
Victor Warring (36:49)
Or the other sides of that are just like popping out. It's like, OK, I'll pretend to be in pleasure right now because it's easier than making the thing happen that I would like. Or I'll pretend to come because that's easier than pausing or stopping. And then just relating it back, because we're also talking about colonization, I like to link things up.
Anne-Marie Marron (37:08)
Let's get this done.
Victor Warring (37:18)
Like not attuning and getting more in an agenda mode. I mean, to me that's, that's about taking and it's similar. It's similar to that idea of like, I'm going to take this land. I'm going to, I'm going to see this land as resources that I do shit with. That's for me. Yeah. Your pleasure becomes a thing I want to extract because it makes me feel good or whatever. And I don't want to dis, I don't want to just respect.
Anne-Marie Marron (37:34)
extract.
Victor Warring (37:45)
like feeling joyful at my partner's pleasure. I that's awesome. I get off on my partner having pleasure, but if I'm doing it in a way that's anxiety-based and less about like what's really working for you and more like, I'm gonna do this thing, I'm gonna do this thing. If I don't do it right, then I did something wrong. How you doing? Are you there? Are coming? know? Yeah, that does not feel good.
Anne-Marie Marron (38:07)
I'm not sure they're friendly.
Yeah, I think that's a really good distinction and you've brought that up a few times. It's just like, even with performance, it's like, when are we moving from anxiety and when are we moving from, whether it's speed or anything else that doesn't have this agenda or this drive, but it's more of like this open curiosity. Okay.
Victor Warring (38:30)
Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, what do say in, in improv or anything else? It's like, you can come in with an agenda because that's, you know, we have ideas of what we would like, but are you willing to drop it at a moment's notice when it's not appropriate or it's, that's not how things are going. Are you willing to let go of that? Like I had this idea, like, Hey, being inside you right now seems like the thing to do. maybe both of you are like, yeah, that's the thing.
something happens and it's the thing. Okay, can we let go of that in the moment and go with like, well, what's actually here? And that's a tuning.
Anne-Marie Marron (39:08)
That is attuning. I'm so glad you just brought that back. I think I've often heard, like, I shouldn't have expectations. It's like, well, we're going to have expectations and we're going to have agendas. It's just what we do once we get in the river with each other and what we're willing to let go of or surrender to or yield from as needed. Yeah. Yeah. OK. I want to just pivot a tiny bit. I've been hearing and I've been experiencing this myself, but I've been hearing this a lot, especially it's starting to soften a little bit, but
As things have been unfolding in the United States, I've heard a lot of people feeling guilty for having pleasure or joy or feeling good. And they're like, but all this is happening in the world. And I want to just riff on that with you for a minute about the power of pleasure and the power of guilt. I mean, all of it. It all has its big influence. maybe starting with the question of how does pleasure play a role for us when we're in chaos and distress?
Victor Warring (40:05)
Yeah, that's a big question and it's a good question and I'll answer it the best that I can. So I'll say this that, we're again, we are we are animals. Maybe I didn't say this before, but we are animals. We are a species of apes and we are subject to the physiology of animals. Right. So when animals are under stress and in duress, things like pleasure, things like sexuality, things like
the patience and the quality of presence that it takes to attune with other beings is much lessened. The breaks can go on. So there's a naturalness to having less pleasure when things are hard. sometimes the way people get around that is dissociating from the things going on. If you're privileged enough, if you're comfortable enough, that's easier to do.
Anne-Marie Marron (40:42)
breaks go on.
Victor Warring (41:04)
So some of the stuff I see right now, there are people with whatever levels of privilege where they don't have to feel the chaos as much or they choose to, and they seem to be having more pleasure or being able to talk about it from that level. But the way I feel into it is that when we are under duress, like we are right now, it is important to have pleasure be a practice that you integrate.
into your life. And it's not necessarily an easy practice right now, but it's an important one. And I think it's an important practice, not only for its own sake. mean, pleasure is good in its own sake, in its own right. But pleasure helps us to stay engaged with life in more useful, positive ways. so let's say you're, I mean, let's say you're an activist of some kind. And I talk with
people, well, I consider myself an activist, but there are people that are way more like on the front lines or doing more, you know, just, and oftentimes what people that are more in the activist side of things, you know, we'll go into it's like, I have time for pleasure. I mean, not necessarily in those words, but, and I, and I will say to them, please make time and understand that it won't, you know, there, you know, there's there, think Dan Savage said, do know Dan? Yeah. Yeah.
Anne-Marie Marron (42:32)
What's this podcast called again for listeners? It's like Savage Love. Yeah.
Victor Warring (42:35)
Savage love.
Yeah. In the morning we protested and in the afternoon we fucked and in the evening we ate dinner and you know, and then we slept and then we went out and we protested again or whatever it was. And I think it's so important because like in the work that I'm interested in, which we're talking about colonization, I'm interested in decolonization of the body, of our relationships, of our culture.
If you don't have a pleasure practice, if you're not approaching decolonization work that includes pleasure, you will tend to recreate the structures of colonization in what you produce. And we don't want to do that.
Anne-Marie Marron (43:19)
Okay, let's say that again. That's fucking powerful right there.
Victor Warring (43:23)
Yeah, if you don't have a good relationship with pleasure and the body and pleasure in connection and whatnot, you will tend to recreate oppressive structures. And so it's not only a good idea, I consider it vitally important to have pleasure practices, and in particular in these times of stress and duress. And I think that the skills
that we have the somatic skills of living in our bodies and having access to our bodies, pleasure, grief, all of it. Those skills of being able to do that without divorcing ourselves from feeling are the same skills that are part of resistance, that are part of standing up. I didn't say this word earlier, but I talk a lot about erotic sovereignty. Erotic sovereignty and sovereignty in terms of
liberation are this to me are very, they're the same damn thing. so that's the importance. That's the importance to me. Colonized culture is very much based in it's antagonistic actually to Eros.
Anne-Marie Marron (44:38)
Well, it feels like it's based in work hard, work harder, do more, accomplish more, guilt, shame. And inside of that, there's really no room for pleasure.
Victor Warring (44:49)
or it's very specific in these moments and these times and only in this way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Anne-Marie Marron (44:56)
the narrow focus.
Yeah, and I think with the pleasure, I like how you just expanded the aperture because it's like having pleasure physiologically helps our brain chemistry, helps our immune system, whether that's like going for a hike, laughing with a friend, making love, whatever it is, fucking, whatever that is. But then there's the pleasure is like the ground from which we're creating from. And if we don't have that ingredient, we could likely be reinforcing structures and patterns in our own psyche and in the systems around us.
that have that, I don't want to say power over, but basically have that limited, kind of the way you were framing colonization, have the sense of agenda controlling and all of that. So it feels like, there's probably other layers of the strata for why pleasure is so important, but simultaneously to your point, it's one of the first things to go out of the window when our mammalian wiring activates and we're in some sort of psychological threat or physical survival.
I would love to transition into, I want to hear a little bit more about your work, but before we go there, maybe it's a segue. When you talk about pleasure practices, what does that mean to you?
Victor Warring (46:07)
Yeah. So it does segue. So, you know, one of the foundational pieces of the work that I do, it's not all of it. So, you know, I educate, I talk about, I invite people into understanding what I call erotic sovereignty. Yeah. As I saying. And to me, that is the understanding that you, I were in these bodies and that our experience in these bodies and in particular,
are the eros in these bodies is very old and it belongs to us. So I'll speak from the eye, like who I am as an erotic being, as an erotic creature. It's older than any relationship I've been in. It's older than the family that I grew up in. It was with me as I developed in utero. We have an erotic personality and it's been with us.
I illustrate it this way, you when I think about children that I have known, or you think about children that you know, like, they all have like their individual like spark that they bring. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, so it's old and it's mine and it's yours. And from birth, depending on the family that you're in, the culture that you're in, but often, you know, we're talking about our culture and our families, we're often taught to like, to deny that or to...
Anne-Marie Marron (47:12)
Filling with it.
Victor Warring (47:29)
sculpt it in weird ways. And then when we get more relational, know, we're taught to like, do it in weird ways. So, erotic sovereignty is about reclaiming this, like this body is mine, this pleasure is mine, this arousal is mine, this orgasm is mine, these fingers, you know, this is mine, not in a selfish like, and mine, know, just like me, me, me, you know, it's like, it just...
this literally belongs to me. When we get relational, like, then it's like, this belongs to me and then that belongs to you. then how do we like play with these things together? But in terms of pleasure practice, developing Iraq sovereignty is about, okay, then how do I play with my pleasure? How do I play with my own body?
And so I talk a lot to people as a foundational practice of developing a self-pleasure practice. people hear that and they automatically think masturbation. I'm like, maybe that's part of it. I love masturbation. Masturbation is great. But when I think masturbation, usually think, I think people think about like A to B. It's like, I want to have this orgasm experience. I'm starting here. How do I get there? Again, great. I do it. I do it. But pleasure, self-pleasure practice is more like,
A to C to D to F to, you know, it's like, how do I step into my pleasure as I would step into a musical score as a jazz improv musician or as a contact improvised dancer? Like what happens when I step in and I go, how do I lean into pleasure in ways that are new, curiosity-based, interesting, possibility-based, less agendad?
I'm not necessarily trying to get A to B. I'm like, what happens on the journey? And then what happens? And it may be very sexual or it may not. Or it be all of it.
Anne-Marie Marron (49:31)
Right. And it depends on the day and the moment.
Victor Warring (49:34)
Yeah. Yeah. You don't, you don't get any demerits if you come.
Anne-Marie Marron (49:38)
Yeah.
Victor Warring (49:41)
But you don't have to. But it really pokes at people because when people hear the word pleasure, most people go, yeah, pleasure. I would love pleasure. But we also, again, in colonized culture, there's some really strong negative assumptions about pleasure. Selfish. Selfish. Yeah. You don't pay attention to that. don't put it on the front burner and go, I'm going to pay attention to this for whatever, an hour or whatever. We don't do that.
Anne-Marie Marron (49:59)
and
Victor Warring (50:10)
Especially if it doesn't have a goal. know, how well, how's this going to increase my productivity? I don't know. it will, but shut up.
Anne-Marie Marron (50:20)
Yeah, there's always something else to do.
Victor Warring (50:25)
Yeah. Right. anyway,
that's, you were asking about pleasure, you know, like what are the practices? That's one of them that I usually begin people with. then we, and then we see like what happens when we do that. There's usually, well, there can be a lot of playful, cool things. And there's usually other stuff too, like resistance and boredom and shame and a lot of, a lot of stuff. it's like, yeah, part of the thing.
Anne-Marie Marron (50:54)
Yeah, and I was just going to acknowledge the importance of that because if we don't spend the time with our body, whether it's seeking pleasure or just connection with ourselves, we don't get to bump into these places of holding and protection. And then we don't get to liberate them if we can't see them and have relationship with them. So it does feel like you're basically asking people to walk into the unknown of who they really, the mystery of who they are.
to be willing and it's courageous to do this because they're just, don't know exactly what we're going to find, but we know we want more intimacy. so I know you bring in sexological bodywork and just maybe for listeners who don't know what that is, maybe just say a few words about that. Cause that is such a profound and beautiful practice body of work.
Victor Warring (51:38)
So, I'll say to people too, it's like everything else at this point, it is Googleable. But so I'm just saying that. like, if you hear me say it, you can also like look for it. I mean, it's.
Anne-Marie Marron (51:51)
Yeah, sexological bodywork.
Victor Warring (51:53)
Yeah, but sexological bodywork is a client-centered practice where hands are on. My hands are on the bodies of my clients. And it's always consent-based and it's always client-centered. In other words, since we're working in the realms of sex and sexuality and eros, that energy can be present. But I always like to make clear with people that it's not.
for me, it's not for the practitioner, even though I'm there, I'm involved and my energy is there too, that it's the difference between that and just having a sexual experience with a person where it's interchange, exchange. It's for the person's learning and their growth. Now, some people can hear that and they'll be like, you know, and especially since I'm a male practitioner.
You know, there's, there can be a lot of doubt or dubiousness about what that means, but that's okay. But yeah, so sexological bodywork is that, and there are definitely like structures within that. Like, so things like pleasure mapping can be a part of sexological bodywork where you are doing educational touch with the client around their erogenous zones or their genitals. And it's like, you know, what feels good, where and how, maybe it's something
I mean, there's a lot of people that don't know much about their bodies.
Anne-Marie Marron (53:24)
Yeah, because we're not taught to explore it.
Victor Warring (53:27)
Right. Or they get in a very particular route about how they experience things, but they've never gone to these other routes. So pleasure mapping is about that. And then what happens when we touch this part of you, like maybe the left quarter quadrant of your clitoris or the perineum or the bottom of your scrotum, when you're at a level one of arousal versus a level...
three of arousal, what's that like? it's very different. Yeah. So that's good information to know. you felt that before? Did you know that? No, I didn't. Yeah. So that's, it's just good to know. So that's sexological bodywork from where I come from. mean, that's two minutes of talking.
Anne-Marie Marron (54:14)
Yeah, no, I know. It's so comprehensive, but it's hands on and it's helping people open up to whatever aspect of their own sexual being, their sovereignty, know, to use your term, the erratic sovereignty.
Victor Warring (54:26)
Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing I'll say about it too, in terms of the work that I do, is that I don't do sexological body work with everyone, because it's not appropriate with everyone. It's a developmental sort of relational process with people that I work with. Like, what makes sense here? Yeah. You know? Just what makes sense here from a what's wanted standpoint, from a gender standpoint?
Anne-Marie Marron (54:45)
feels important.
Victor Warring (54:55)
from a trauma and history standpoint, from a what are you sort of developmentally ready for standpoint. You sometimes people come to me and yeah, and I work with them and they're like, oh yeah, it sounds like you haven't done maybe the counseling or psychotherapy work yet. That would be more beneficial to where you're trying to get to before we're touching base with each other. Or maybe...
it makes more sense for you to work with a different gender practitioner because the stuff between genders is like too much right now, either from the negative side or even from the positive side. I've connected with people and it's not that there shouldn't or can't be like an attraction between practitioner and client. mean, it's fine. It can be helpful. And I've also had to be like the...
Anne-Marie Marron (55:47)
helpful.
Victor Warring (55:52)
That's too much. Right. I'm not like trying to like toot my own horn or anything like that. But yeah, but it just happens that like there's too much charge there. We couldn't we couldn't do like we're not going to be able to do the educational piece because you're to be like too charged. So so there's that too. So anyway, lots of lots of things to think about.
Anne-Marie Marron (56:15)
So many things to think about. And ultimately what this is really about is feeling. It's about coming home to feeling. Earlier you said something, I can't remember what part we were in, but you did this like circle with your hips and you were talking about how... I did? Yeah, you did. And it was about the grief and like moving things through the body. Like you said, some people haven't moved things through the body and then you said most of us haven't. And I think that's ultimately when I think about my own erotic nature, I think about my relationship to feeling.
my interoception, that sense of knowing my experience from the inside out and being with my body. It can be so distracting to go straight to exploring things around sex if we haven't done that work of understanding our psyche and understanding how things are mapped in us and how we are operating in the world. mean, there's no linear path, but I'm appreciating sequencing back through. As I'm saying this, see if I'm missing anything, if there's any other topic we want to touch. it feels like
The beauty of opening up about what the difference between erotic and sex, and then this whole erotic sovereignty and the colonization and the very innocent ways that we as a collective human species have lost. Well, not all, because there's some indigenous, there's some that are still very connected to this intimate level of being in connection with everything in a very harmonious way. that there's a way that we're all, those of us that are not in that, are learning how to unravel.
and we're having to learn that through anxiety-driven behaviors, whether that's performative sex or other parts, and that there are antidotes, and the antidotes are various things around the laughter. Like the part of the, I guess it's like the antidote is the components of eroticism, which is the playfulness, the humor, the going into the full spectrum of emotions, allowing ourselves to feel pleasure, the experience of you with your two lovers and recognizing you were hitting a...
they were also recognizing, the three of you, that you were hitting a threshold and they were asking you to relax and surrender. It's like this level of being kind of midwifing each other as lovers, as friends, as colleagues, however we're doing that, to surrender into receiving the mirrors and the beauty of attention, affection, love, pleasure, and slowing the fuck down in order to actually know what's going on inside of us.
and to be attuned to one another. Anything else in terms of like mapping this erotic piece that comes to mind as we summarize today?
Victor Warring (58:48)
Maybe a couple of things. So one is this. I just want to offer that regardless of what kind of human you are, whether you're a modern day domesticated living in the United States kind of human, or whether you are a modern hunter gatherer living.
living on land. Anyway, it's fucking hard to be human. Fucking hard. And it's hard in different ways. But I want to offer that up because as I talk about decolonization and when I talk about hunter-gatherers and I talked about indigenous people and I don't have the corner of the market on indigeneity, I'm not indigenous. I don't know that land and that life. I just know what people who are that have shared with me. there can be this idea that there's this ideal and like, if we were just like indigenous or
If we were, if we tried to like live as a hunter gatherer, then we would just be great. And it's like, no, that's not the point. Yeah. And I just want to let people know that, Hey, where I am not going to be a hunter gatherer. It's too late. It's too late. We are not going to do that. but the bigger thing is I don't want to idealize the lives of those people and have it be like another way for us to sort of, yeah, to dissociate from.
the truth of who we are. So I wanted to say that in terms of our bodies and in terms of our eros and sexuality, being who we are and being where we come from, there can be this idea that we're broken. So I also want to share that there's nothing about us that's broken. There's only like, what do we want to reclaim and remember? And then the last thing that I'm remembering right now and that
And this isn't specifically about sex, but it is about colonization and decolonization. And I wanted to name for you and for the listeners that that process of reclaiming and discovery is different, not only for different people, but it's different for different populations of people. So my experience of decolonizing my life, my body, my sexuality is going to be different as a black body person in the United States.
than it is for a person of European descent in the United States. And it's going to be different than a person who is indigenous to the United States. It's going to be different. So we're going to have different experiences because we're coming from different experiences of this experience. And that's just the United States. So then there's other parts of the world. So I tend to work, because of how I work and whatnot, with...
mostly people from the United States, not always. Oftentimes people of European descent, but not always. so anyway, I'm just, I'm just saying this because yeah, we're going to have different experiences.
Anne-Marie Marron (1:01:43)
Yeah, that's really important. Deet, would you say that everyone shares the shame and the guilt? It just looks differently of how it lives in the body or lives in their psyche or no?
Victor Warring (1:01:54)
No, I won't say that as a wholesale thing, but I will say that people growing up under colonization, whether it's as maybe a white body person that has maybe benefited more from these systems, black and indigenous people that have not benefited as much from... I actually want to say this, no one's benefiting.
Anne-Marie Marron (1:02:18)
from this shit. Yeah, fair.
Victor Warring (1:02:20)
But anyway, but your question was about shame. I'll say this. Shame is the quiet intruder, not always quiet, that's there for most of us around these things. I lead this experience called Dance Eros, which is an erotic, inclusive, ecstatic dance, which has this whole structure around it about, But what I love to say there and other...
experiences too is like we'll step into this thing and oftentimes we'll have these amazing experiences or like this new thing. It's like, wow, what's it like to have permission to like, and I would say to people after we're done and later that night or the next day, just know that you might have shame. it might not even be nameable as that. might be a headache or it might be like repulsion or it might be like, like this thing I did, that was, why did I do that or whatever. could be a lot of different things.
But just know that shame is often there and we have these upper limits of what we're supposed to experience. And when we push against those, the culture comes in or the internalized culture comes in and goes, that was a lot. You need to get you back in there and continue being productive and serving the state. That's what we need you doing.
Anne-Marie Marron (1:03:33)
get you back in that little.
Great.
Yeah, that feels like a beautiful way to wrap this up of just... No. No. I do not want to wrap things up there. Fuck that. No, I know you know it's kidding. But just this notion of as we expand into new experiences or as we discover levels of freedom inside of ourselves, there often is a flip side that comes, whether it's the body releasing something through a headache or digestive issues or whatever the next couple of days, or it's psychological and we can see the content.
Victor Warring (1:03:51)
serving the state.
Anne-Marie Marron (1:04:15)
that that's just part of the process and why containers and being able to talk with others about this is so important. okay, in closing, you're going to one of my favorite places on the planet. I used to live there. You're going to be teaching at Esalen, which is very exciting. And I wanted you to share with listeners just a tiny bit about that and then anything else you want to share about your work. And we will have your...
website and how to find you on Instagram and Facebook in the show notes.
Victor Warring (1:04:47)
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, at the end of May, May 30th through June 1st, I will be doing a weekend workshop at Esalen. The title of the workshop is The Rewilding of Eros, which will have a lot of some of these things that we've just been talking about. So it'll be a combination of education, but experiential work. Yeah. So it'll be a weekend deep dive.
at the somatic level into some of these things I'm talking about. The workshop's actually full. Oh. But there's a waiting list for it. So if you go there and you're interested, put yourself on the waiting list. There's still a little while to go, so I'm sure things will do what they do. And I want to let people know, too, even though, like, we've been talking somewhat frankly about sex and sexual experiences, it's not going to be a sexual workshop. other words, there's not going to be...
Anne-Marie Marron (1:05:21)
Amazing. Great.
Victor Warring (1:05:43)
open sexuality there or even nudity in the workshop. So I just want people to know that. I kind of want to do that, you know, am I going to be naked?
Anne-Marie Marron (1:05:48)
So.
Yeah. That's a thing to clarify. Yeah.
Victor Warring (1:05:58)
Yeah, So yeah, that's coming up and I'm super, super excited about it. And then later on in the summer, these are things that are, they're not out yet, but if you follow me, you'll be able to find them. So in August, I'll be doing the rewilding of Eros workshop in Portland that will actually be, contain more sexual pieces. So that dance Eros will be in there. I also lead a self-pleasure circle.
Okay. And there it's community self pleasure. And that's so that would be part of that workshop. So follow me and you'll see those announcements. And also in Eros, I'll be doing a combined workshop with another amazing being they're called Z, Z Gris. Yeah. And yeah. And we collaborated. They, I mean, they produced it, but I was part of a team that collaborated on this film called Grief in Eros, which is also based in the
Anne-Marie Marron (1:06:34)
fan.
Victor Warring (1:06:57)
the traditions of a Sabanfusame. So we did the film and the film will be part of a weekend workshop that we co-facilitate and that'll be in August as well in Colorado. and that's not, I say will be, we're still like in the logistics of that, but that'll be known and up. So that's really exciting.
Anne-Marie Marron (1:07:00)
Okay, yeah.
Majestics.
Okay, great.
So exciting. Is this film public?
Victor Warring (1:07:28)
No.
Okay. Yeah, the film. So I'll just say this quickly about the film. The film is amazing. Like a group of us got together and did this like week long village building thing that was filmed. And we explored Eros and secure attachment and race and gender and just did all of our work around that. And in the making of that, Z discovered, this is like, this is good for people to see and experience.
But it's too much to be just like, here's a film to watch. It's more like, it's more like, and it needs to be, needs to be held. So that's what has become of project.
Anne-Marie Marron (1:08:02)
digested in community. Yeah, okay.
Way to listen, Zee. Yeah. Amazing. Okay. So everything can be found in the show notes on you and I will be staying tuned on your offerings. And thank you. It was so lovely to be with you. There's a thousand threads we didn't follow that I was like, we could go there. But of course that's going to be that way on this topic and with someone like you, but yes. Yes. Exactly.
Victor Warring (1:08:29)
We get to the threads that we do.
I like sex.
Anne-Marie Marron (1:08:38)
Okay, until next time.
Victor Warring (1:08:40)
Thank you so much. It's been a joy talking with
Anne-Marie Marron (1:08:43)
You too. Bye.